Promoting diversity and inclusion is now one of the priority management issues. Efforts are underway in many places to embrace diversity, including LGBT, and create workplaces where everyone can work comfortably.

Masakazu Yanagisawa of Goldman Sachs Securities Co., Ltd., one of the "ally" companies that actively supports LGBT people, has come out as gay and is active across the country in supporting LGBT people.

His work has been recognized worldwide, and he has been selected as one of the Financial Times' "2016 Global LGBT Executives" for several years since 100. We spoke with Yanagisawa, who also works as a manager building organizations, about the challenges LGBT people face, the ways he has changed society, and what managers can do to create an environment where LGBT people can work comfortably.

Goldman Sachs Securities Co., Ltd.
Masakazu Yanagisawa

Graduated from Keio University Faculty of Policy Management. Has worked at Goldman Sachs Securities since 2019, currently serving as Managing Director of the Prime Services Department in charge of hedge fund-related operations. Participates in the Work with Pride project, which calls for recognition of LGBT in the workplace and proactive company initiatives, and launched the Pride Index, the first such index in Japan to evaluate LGBT policy initiatives by companies. Director of the international NGO Human Rights Watch Headquarters. Served as a panelist in the Microsoft LGBT session at the 2016 World Economic Forum (Davos Conference). Director of the public interest foundation Freedom to Marry for All.

The lack of legal protection for LGBT people

--First, I'd like to clarify the concept of LGBT. Why is it said that LGB and T people face different challenges?

LGB (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual) is a sexual orientation,Which gender do you like?Represents

On the other hand, T (transgender) stands for gender identity. It doesn't matter what gender you are attracted to.How do you identify your sexuality?A person whose "gender at birth" and "gender identity" are different is called transgender.

For example, among transgender people who were born female and identify as male, some are attracted to men and others to women. Gender identity and sexual orientation are separate and complex.

--Are there differences in the challenges faced by LGB and T people?

There are common challenges and there are differences.

There are two main things in common. The first is"Understanding by the general public is still in progress"As the data shows, "The percentage of people who have thought about suicide as a child is 5 to 8 times higher than those who are not LGBT," many LGBT people still suffer from discrimination.

The 2 one isJapan does not have a legal system that comprehensively protects sexual minorities (LGBT and other sexual minorities).Although the LGBT Awareness Promotion Act was enacted in 2023, there is still no law that provides all the obligations, rights and protections, even though there are laws that protect other minorities, such as people with disabilities and women.

--What is the difference between LGB and T?

LGB people have the characteristic that if they hide it, it is difficult to tell. Since it is a sexual orientation, it is difficult to tell from appearance unless someone comes out.

On the other hand, there are cases where transgender people, regardless of their own wishes, can be identified from the outside due to differences between the gender on their ID and their appearance when they transition to a different gender. It depends on the person, but there are many people who want to live without hiding, and so they do not transition to the gender on their family register, but try to get closer to the gender they identify with through their appearance.

It is natural to want to live as the gender you identify with by changing your clothing and your body itself.They face different challenges than LGB people in the sense that the change is more visible to those around them.Hm.

--It's been 10 years since you started working to support LGBT people. How has the current social situation surrounding LGBT changed?

Over the past decade, awareness of this issue has increased rapidly. It is now recognized as a social issue and is discussed as a form of diversity.

However, there are still flaws in the social system, and the reason for this is"Generation Gap"I think the reason is that people in their teens and twenties have a lot of understanding of LGBT, with some coming out at school and others watching LGBT-themed dramas. However, once people reach their 10s or older, there are many who cannot accept it even if they understand it intellectually.

As long as these people are in decision-making positions, society will not change.

Not recognizing same-sex marriage would undermine the competitiveness of Japanese companies

-- I'd like to ask you a bit more about the issues. You say that legalizing same-sex marriage would also benefit companies. Why is that?

If same-sex marriage is not legalized,"Japanese companies' competitiveness will be weakened" for three reasonsBecause I think so.

The first is that if companies want to support same-sex marriage, they should consider providing tax deductions and reductions in insurance premiums that are available through marriage.Companies will have to cover "more than 120 types of social security packages, depending on the survey"For example, Goldman Sachs partially covers the health insurance costs for same-sex couples. This cuts into money and time that could have been spent on research and development and improving working conditions.

The second reason is from the perspective of human resources. Recently, the Supreme Court of Hong Kong ruled that not recognizing same-sex marriage "partially violates the Basic Law of Hong Kong (equivalent to the Constitution)." (*2) Same-sex marriage is recognized in Taiwan, and deliberations are underway in Thailand.

If Japan is left behind as its Asian competitors change across the board and is seen as a difficult place for homosexuals to live in,Difficulty in recruiting and retaining overseas personnel

The third reason is about culture. Speaking from experience,Productivity is difficult to increase in the workplace where you have to hide the fact that you are gay.

Before I came out, I also lied at work and said I had a girlfriend. It was stressful to keep my words and actions consistent so that no one would find out, and it was hard to build trust with people. The "cost of not being able to self-disclose" is high, and I think that individual performance will decline accordingly.

In fact, for these reasons, many companies support the introduction of same-sex marriage, and as of October 2023, 10, 30 companies and organizations have expressed their support. Goldman Sachs is one of the companies that has supported it from the beginning, and while initially the majority of supporting companies were foreign, now the majority are Japanese companies (*45).

(*1) Hong Kong Supreme Court rejects same-sex marriage, calls for alternative legal framework for couples | Reuters https://jp.reuters.com/article/hongkong-lgbt-idJPKBN30B0RT
(*2) Business for Marriage Equality: Companies and organizations that support marriage equality |http://bformarriageequality.net/#support

-- Ethically and practically speaking, same-sex marriage should be recognized... What is the main reason for being against it?

The government is opposed to marriage because it does not involve reproduction. In other words, they argue that the purpose of marriage is reproduction, and that social security exists to allow people to have and raise children.

However, this is logically flawed. Couples who cannot have children for some reason can still marry if they are heterosexual. This clearly creates a disadvantage only for homosexuals.

In fact, lawsuits claiming that this disadvantage is unconstitutional have been filed in five district courts across the country. As of October 5, the law has been ruled unconstitutional or in an unconstitutional state in Sapporo, Tokyo, Nagoya, and Fukuoka.

--The discussions are definitely underway.

The issue of same-sex marriage is ultimately a generational gap, so it should be resolved automatically once people in their teens and twenties take the lead in society. However, I don't think we should just wait for that to happen. I think it's our responsibility as the older generation to accelerate change and create a society where diverse people can live easily as soon as possible.

"Common sense" and "common indicators" will change society

- Based on your activities so far, what do you think is needed to "change the course of society"?

How much we can make it the normI think that is important.

For example, using the power of technology such as SEO, we have worked to ensure that information on the topic of "LGBT" is displayed fairly at the top of e-commerce sites and search sites. Also, when a company had a campaign to post photos of couples around town, we asked them to include photos of same-sex couples as well, and we naturally included LGBT elements in places where people could see them.

Recently, the TV Asahi drama "Yuria Sensei's Red Thread" I am involved in the supervision of ". It is a big deal that this theme can be dealt with in prime time. In the future, my goal is to bring it to the point where a homosexual couple appears in a morning drama.

--You mentioned the generation gap. What should we be aware of in order to get the older generation to accept it as normal?

Matching traditional things with new valuesPeople who create traditional content, such as festivals and theater, are looking for ways to get young, new people to watch them. They are proposing values ​​and a worldview that shows that communities such as LGBT, which are often perceived as new, are natural members of society.

This is not just true in the entertainment industry, but also in the world of politics and administration. The reason why local governments around the country introduced partnership systems was also because they wanted young people to move there.

--How can we change what is considered "the norm" in the corporate and business world?

"Partnering with a company that everyone knows"When a large company that is the industry leader changes, other large companies in the same industry will also change due to their tendency to follow the same pattern.

From there, the changes can be expanded to affiliated companies, business partners, and stakeholders. It is important to take advantage of horizontal connections within the industry and opportunities to exchange ideas to make the activities that started as a single point into a larger one.

Another important thing is to create common indicators to evaluate the initiatives.Work with Pride General Incorporated Association (a voluntary organization at the time)In 2016, the Japan-based PRIDE Index was created, the first index in Japan to evaluate sexual minority initiatives in the workplace. Goldman Sachs has been awarded the highest Gold rating since the first year of the index, and there have been cases where new graduates came to interview at the company because it is a Gold company.

The aim is to further define the scope and level of LGBT support efforts by companies, as well as to accelerate the sharing of information and knowledge between companies, leading to better activities.

The manager's weapons are "data" and "anecdotes"

-- I think that commitment from the top is important to accelerate a company's initiatives, but what should managers in an organization do?

I believe that because managers are in contact with both management and the field, they are able to use "data" to change the company.

Use data to show how diverse your workplace isThe way people live and work is bound to be completely different depending on their sexuality, family circumstances, illness, and so on.

While being careful about how the information is handled, we conduct anonymous surveys of employees, compile data on their attributes, engagement, work-related concerns, intentions to quit, and so on, and share the issues for each community with management.

-- Are there any tips for getting your proposal accepted?

Presenting individual personal anecdotes togetherIt can be something that one of the people involved has courageously spoken out about, or even if real names are not used, it can be an anecdote about a work-related situation that the management can remember.

These features make the data appear more real and visible.Knowing and communicating with your team is something only a manager on the ground can do.

In fact, when the management team found out in the survey that 8% of employees (12 in 13 to 1 people) were LGBTQ, and read comments such as "I liked that the president participated in the LGBTQ parade" among the anonymous responses, they suddenly had a sense of reality about the issue, even though they had only had a vague understanding of it until then.

--What can we do to become a manager who is willing to share personal details with our subordinates, including coming out, in order to understand their situations?

One way is to show you are an ally by placing a rainbow flag in a visible place.

But I think what's even more important is"Attitude of interacting with each and every member every day"You may want to talk to a manager who is not just interested in specific issues like LGBT, but who is always looking closely at their team members and openly and proactively discussing what's best for them.

My boss, when I came out to him about 10 years ago, was like that. I thought that if he was someone who treated people well, he would think about things together with me, even if he didn't have any knowledge about LGBT issues.

—— Subordinates are watching how their managers behave. Have you ever had someone come out to you?

Ever since I came out, people from various teams have started coming to me for advice.

One of the most memorable experiences at my previous workplace was when a cancer survivor came out to me. She had not disclosed the possibility of a recurrence or the frequent absences she had to take for checkups because it was not necessary.

But when she joined my team, she told me about it. That was the first time I understood a little bit about the pain of cancer. At the same time, I was moved by her sharing the pain she was experiencing.

I came out and people understood me, and I listened to other people come out and understood their pain.These two experiences have given me strengths as a manager.

I'm sure everyone has some kind of worries, not just gender-related ones.You don't have to come out completely, but it's important to create a work environment where you can speak up when you want to.I think that is the case.

[Interview and text] Fumiaki Sato　
[photograph]Daisuke Koike
[Planning and editing] Yuko Kawabata (XICA)