"I want to do something interesting, and if I'm going to start a business, I want to be a big winner" - The reason behind my transition from CTO to engineer

Takao Kashima was responsible for the development of multiple products at Recruit, and served as development manager and CTO in a joint venture with CyberAgent, which provides "Geppo," before moving to become a software engineer at XICA in January 2021. We asked him why he left his position as CTO and started a new life as an engineer.

At 30, is it okay to work in a job where you sell your knowledge piece by piece?

"I thought that if I worked like a mercenary, selling my knowledge piece by piece, I might earn money, but I wouldn't get anything other than money. I also wanted to feel like I was contributing to the business as an engineer. I asked myself over and over again what it was that I wanted to do. I wanted to join a company where I could contribute to the business and where both I and the company would grow together."

--Kashima says that when he wanted to do something interesting, he naturally ended up taking on projects that were behind schedule or in a state of chaos.

Kashima: In the meantime, I realized that I was good at organizing development processes and systems, increasing team productivity, and organizing the situation to make progress smoother. And there is a shortage of people who are good at those things in the engineering industry as a whole. So, when I was looking for a new job, I was often asked to participate in that role.

--Have you ever considered changing jobs to a position like that?

I thought that if I continued to work like that at the age of 30, my future would be limited.

Pursuing interesting things and learning the difficulties of winning in business

Kashima: When I was little, I wanted to be an inventor. I wanted to pop out new things.

I studied electronic engineering in college and graduate school, so many people around me went on to research positions. However, I thought that a research position might not be for me, so after graduating from graduate school, I joined a major newspaper company.

Why did you join a newspaper company?

At the time, I thought that these people were very concerned about the current situation.

We need to protect journalism as reporting, but we also need to make use of technology.I think we can turn a crisis into an opportunity and do something interesting.I joined the company with that in mind.

We set up IT infrastructure, introduced an in-house version of Git and conducted in-house training, launched new businesses, and otherwise challenged ourselves to do as many interesting things as possible within the environment we were given.

--After that, you moved to Recruit.

My second company, Recruit, is good at creating businesses, soHow do you create products to make your business successful?I went there because I wanted to know more about that.

There were so many things I learned at Recruit that I can't even begin to talk about them all, but the biggest thing I learned was,It's very hard to start a businessThat's what it means.

It's not like all the services are successful just because they're from a company that's good at business development, but everyone is working hard and racking their brains to make them. I also had to think about difficult things and take on challenges, and there were many times when things didn't go well, but I just kept moving forward little by little.

There are a lot of positive and competitive people in the company, and that kind of environment was stimulating and very interesting.

The deciding factor for me to join XICA was the opportunity to try again as an engineer.

--What made you decide to leave Recruit and join XICA?

With my previous experience, I would have received offers for positions as a development manager or CTO, but XICA wanted me to be a software engineer, which was great.

While there are many positions where you are asked to "make sure the development organization runs smoothly," XICA isIt allowed me to take on new challenges as a private and as an engineer.That was my deciding factor for joining the company.

--Did you have a strong desire to use your hands to create something?

That's one thing, but even when I was CTO and development manager,I didn’t really feel like I was leading the business to success.Right? I don't have any products that I've done that have been a huge success, or that I can say I made. I think there are about 100 people other than me who can say they made a product that they were involved in developing.

I think it's difficult to feel like you've contributed to a business. There are trends, and the other members are highly motivated, and unless everyone is like Superman, it's not very likely that you'll be successful in business.But, if you're going to start a business, you want to win big, right?

This also relates to the discomfort I felt at the beginning about "selling off the knowledge and experience I've gained so far to get a job."Rather than settling into a position where I can effectively do what the market demands, I wanted to once again commit myself to product development as an engineer, with the mentality of a rank and file soldier, and lead the business to success.

--You said that you wanted to go abroad, but was that something you were thinking about while you were at Recruit?

When I was at Recruit, I had the opportunity to go to a Google conference and visit Google's San Francisco and Mountain View offices. I talked to the engineers and product managers there and thought it was great.

I had been wanting to go abroad for some reason, but I had never taken any action. I went to San Francisco and felt the local atmosphere, and my desire to go abroad became stronger, but I still didn't take any action.

I thought that if I said I wanted to go abroad, someday someone would take me. But of course, if I remained passive like that, it never happened.

I wanted something that could be considered a challenge for myself, so I made a change of heart and set a strong goal for myself: "Going abroad with XICA."

I want to learn from experienced CTOs and become a CTO again.

--Did you know about XICA's CTO, Koresawa?

I had heard a talk by Korezawa-san, who was then Mercari's VPoE, at a study group I attended. It was around the time that I was working hard as the CTO of "Geppo" at Recruit.

When I heard that Mr. Koresawa had gone to XICA, I thought it sounded interesting.I had always wanted to try being a CTO again someday, and wanted to see up close how a CTO with a lot of experience gets the job done.

-What is it like working with Mr. Koresawa?

Someone who is serious about not being careless or vagueOn the other hand, I also felt that what I had been doing up until then was correct to a certain extent.

-Do you feel like you're learning as you check your answers?

That's right. The management team is really attractive, including Mr. Korezawa, CEO Mr. Hirao, and COO Mr. Yano. I think they have great drive.I really like how they follow through and don't do things half-heartedly..

I think people have a tendency to not tackle things that are bothersome or to put them off. But she doesn't ignore the small details, or the things that she thinks wouldn't make much difference if she overlooked them. She picks them up and deals with them honestly. It's actually a difficult thing to do, but she manages to get it done, and I think it's amazing.

The seriousness of the employees

--You're currently in charge of the re-architecture of Magellan, aren't you?

Yes. I am the tech lead for the re-architecture.

Re-architecture is quite an interesting subject from an engineer's perspective. Venture companies that have 3- or 5-year-old systems generally have a mess of code, and there are quite a few job postings like, "We want to re-architect our systems too! We're looking for people who can re-architect them!"

What makes XICA different from other companies isA place where we have the people to do the job properlyFirst of all, their basic technical skills are high. They also have a good sense of balance and good communication skills. They are people who can converse stress-free in technical, business, and everyday conversations. In that sense, I think they have gathered the right kind of people.

If there is no coordination between development and management, the motivation to "rebuild" increases within the development team, which often leads to half-hearted adoption. Since the development content is also a project that gives the impression of going underground, there are many situations where people in other departments within the company have no interest in the rearchitecture at all.

This is where XICA was different.The quality of the personnel is highThat's right. And,The entire company is working on the re-architecture. I felt how serious they were.

--Were you interested in the company's business area (marketing)?

At first, I wasn't that interested in the business area. I was attracted to the organizational structure and human resources at first, and as the selection process progressed, I gradually became attracted to the business area.

In the end, when I heard about his plans for the future during my interview with Mr. Hirao, I felt that he was serious about doing something really big. That challenge sounds interesting, so I thought, "Let's give it a try!"

--What is your definition of a strong development organization?

I guess you could call it autonomous.Each person can think for themselves, decide what is best for them, and then move forward with decisions. That kind of organization is strong.I think.

--Isn't there a fine line between autonomy and individualism?

The thing I think most about coming to XICA is,It's not a company where individuals compete against each other.It's a results-based system, but there's also an atmosphere of cooperation.

Everyone's goal is to advance the business, and they are not obsessed with individual results.There's no competitive spirit, but rather we get along well.

Four months after joining the company, Kashima-san has already been put in charge of the rearchitecture of Magellan. Development is expected to finish around August, and the rearchitecture is scheduled to be complete by the end of the year.

When asked about her impressions so far, she said, "It's been tough. I'll keep trying. It's fun."
That's what he told me.

*The affiliation and title of the interviewee are those at the time of the interview.